Toni:

Here’s a question that sounds simple but almost never is. What outcome are you actually after? Not what task is in front of you, not what everyone agreed to six months ago, not the 420 processes someone put on a list before you arrived, the actual outcome, the thing that makes any of the work worth the time you’re spending on it. My guest today has built an entire career around that question.

Jessi Shurik is an associate partner at Synthesis, a consulting firm reinventing what outcome-focused consulting looks like. But apart there was anything but linear. I think that’s a theme we’re getting now. If any of you think you need the standard recipe, there is no such thing. I’m hoping you’re getting that from our interviews this year. But Jessi, just like many other ladies on this podcast, set out to be something different. Jessi set out to be an architect, studied at Cornell.

Pivoted into an MBA in economics at NYU and then got recruited into Ernst Young, where she spent 17 years working across process automation, orchestration, AI, and global financial institutions. And then made a deliberate move to a smaller firm where she realized her objectives and her employers were finally aligned. In this episode, we dive into what it really means to be outcome focused, why so many companies think they know their outcomes, but actually don’t.

We talk about AI adoption and Jesse’s refreshingly grounded take that AI is not a magic bean. Thank you for saying it in that. It’s the next tool in the toolbox. And if your foundation is broken, throwing AI at it, I’m going to say that again. And if your foundation is broken, throwing AI at it just gives you a faster version of the same problem. We talk about the reality of AI skepticism, the growing number of people being forced to adopt tools they don’t want.

And what actually drives adoption, which turns out to be nothing to do with technology and everything to do with bringing people along. And then we got a little bit personal. Jessi shares her story about being overlooked in the office, and the answer to the question is a whole lesson in itself. If you’ve ever struggled to get clarity on what you’re really trying to retrieve, wrestled with AI adoption in your organization, or held yourself back from speaking up in a moment where you knew you should.

Toni:

This one is for you. Let’s get Jessi onto the show.

Welcome to the show, Jesse. Thank you for joining us today.

Jessi:

Thank you for having me.

Toni:

Let’s start with your journey. How where did you come from? How did you get to your position you are today as an associate partner in the synthesis? What does synthesis do? Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Jessi:

a large part of my early story was that I thought for a very long time I wanted to be an architect. and I knew that I wanted to go to Cornell University. So I worked really hard for a lot of years on that goal, which was accomplished. and then when I got to Cornell in the architecture program, it was a little different than I expected, but I loved Cornell.

And I loved the atmosphere and kind of being around people with so many great ideas and so many great ambitions. So I found a similar program at the university to complete my studies there. But then when I got out into the real world, I wasn’t sure that design was really where I wanted to go. So I ended up at NYU getting an MBA with a focus in economics. And when I finished my MBA, around the time I was graduating, it was not a great economy. So I ended up being recruited by Ernst Young. And I thought this is a great time to be at a global firm to really get a lot of experience, to have a lot of different interactions. And I thought that it was very similar to my experience at Cornell where you have different classes, there are people from all over the world. You can kind of change your journey within this sort of large enterprise. So I really got a lot of different experience. In my last, you know, seven to eight years at UI, I spent working with a technology alliance partners on a global scale, focused in process solution, automation, orchestration, getting a bit involved with artificial intelligence, and really working with global financial institutions. and that job that I had at the end of my time at EY didn’t exist even when I was at my undergraduate university. So it’s interesting just to even get to that point.

And then I really started thinking about, okay, well, what am I giving back to the clients and what are they getting when I leave? How am I helping them? And my objectives and my journey were not the same anymore. So I moved to a consulting company that is much smaller. It was founded in Tokyo. And I joined in January of 2026.

And we’re very outcome focused, collaborating with clients, to bring value back to clients and and kind of reinvent consulting.

Toni:

It’s really interesting because I don’t think many people go through an MBA. Obviously you went to study architecture first, so you already did A pivot. But I think many people do an MBA thinking, I want to go and work in consulting. But I’ve never met somebody who knew that. But obviously a lot of people are recruited out of university MBAs or you know, whatever to become consultants. What made you take that leap into Enston Young? Like what did they just sell it to you?

Did you know, like part way through your NBA, that’s like I want to go and do this kind of work? As you say, there’s a lot of pros to it, working with all these partners across the globe. when did you realise it was your thing?

Jessi:

I want to see that.

But it’s awesome.

I actually declined an interview a few times and I was about to get on a plane for a family vacation and I agreed to the interview so that they would stop calling. And when I went in for my interviews, every interview I had, I enjoyed the conversation. The person that I met with had an interesting experience, goals, things to say, and and I thought that at the time I was graduating it would be a very good decision to be at a global firm. that I would be able to have lots of opportunity. I did always want to work on a global scale. and I wasn’t ready to leave the United States in terms of where I lived. So I thought that this would be that that choice would be a good choice for me. and I was given a lot of opportunity and a lot of freedom to kind of steer my own career. And within EY I had a number of different focus areas over the 17 years. So I gained a lot of experience in subject matter. clients, geographies, time zones, you know, kind of building new businesses, working with partners, working with technology alliances. So it was a a really great opportunity.

Toni:

So you talked a few moments ago about how your objectives and your journey, I think, is what you said. Have diverged at that point, like before you joined your current company. and I know when you and I spoke previously, you’re incredibly passionate about helping people instead of just fulfilling the contract, as it were. I this is something that a lot of us come to a point in our career where We realise we’re misaligned in some way. We thought we were doing one thing, and either the company isn’t has never done that, and we’ve just realized, or it you know, companies evolve and change. for f for you, and I think a lot of people understand this like passion for helping people, making a difference. Like a lot of people come to me and say, I’m in a mission I want to work for a mission-driven organization, which interesting means very different things to different people. There is no like one, like this is what mission-driven means. Where for you

Jessi:

It’s a lot of different things differently. I’d say at some point it was always an aspect. when I first left undergraduate university and ended up in New York City, I you know, had a

Toni:

when did you realize that helping people was really important? Was it you know, when you were a little kid? Or was it during your time at Ernest Young, somewhere in between? Like when did you realize this about you, that that was what was going to drive your career?

Jessi:

A network of friends that I either knew from growing up or from university or from friends of friends. And I did have one come to me, and I think at the time he was working at Lehman Brothers, and he was like, You need to volunteer for this organization because you’re just absolutely going to love it. And it was it’s called Minds Matter, and it was for high-achieving, low-income high school students in New York City. So That in parallel with my education, my graduate school education, and my career path kind of moved in parallel for a while. And I volunteered in different roles in that organization for a long time. So I kind of got this sense of giving back from that. Like I was getting the rewards from that volunteer experience.

And then when I went to EY, my extracurricular activity was connecting with universities. I spent most of my time focused on Cornell, sometime focused on NYU, Stevens Institute, and getting involved with case competitions, working with students, mentoring students. I did teach a few classes, guest lecturing classes. and then overall just kind of recruiting for EY and connecting with students and then they’re essentially like classes of new graduates that come in to be new consultants. And so they’d be in groups of 25. So at EY, I went through two of those groups where I had new consultants coming in to sort of mentor and guide their career. So that was kind of always there. and it wasn’t until really I started moving through different objectives at the firm that I really sort of Developed more of a focus for okay, well, am I leaving this client in a better place? Have they learned from me? Have they gotten an outcome that was worth our time here and their time here? Because no matter what you do as a consultant, you still need time from your client. And all of our time is valuable. So you want to make sure that you’re kind of trading that time for something that was worth it.

Toni:

Well, that brings me nicely onto the outcome focused piece that you have. You know, you’ve talked about you’re very outcome focused. The projects you take on, whether it’s in your previous role or your current company, it means a lot to you to focus on outcomes. And I think this is something I’d love to dive into more because I think this is where a lot of us can learn something. A lot of my coaching is around helping people understand what is the real outcome you’re after. And I do think that is part of the value of a consulting firm coming in. It forces you to understand the outcome you’re desiring. Otherwise, why are you investing the money in this very expensive consulting solution? How do you go about with a client, how do you go about identifying their outcome? Like and and more to the point, how can listeners learn from this and help their company? I think a lot of companies think they know their outcomes, but when I dive into it, how can people start identifying proper outcomes?

Jessi:

I haven’t gotten it. That’s why it’s my thing.

So, in my experience, transparency is one of your greatest tools. and I think sometimes it’s uncomfortable for clients, it’s uncomfortable for your team. but for a little bit of short-term discomfort, there’s a large upside. And I do find or have found over the years that

If you don’t clarify your objectives and agree on your goals up front and really have a bit of a learning session, learning the value of this sort of exercise, then you get into something and you’re, you know, six weeks, six months, six years down a path, and you turn back and you’re like, Well, what are we really doing here? And sometimes client leadership changes over.

Their expectations change, and that’s why you need to continue to have those check-ins. But clarifying the objectives also kind of helps the clients focus on where they’re prioritizing their time. You know, for example, I had a client where I came in to take over because someone was leaving, and when I got there, what I was told the objective was to assess 420 processes.

Current state processes. And my question was: well, what is our goal in that? Because by the time we do that in any sort of valuable way, the outcome may not even be applicable anymore because we’ve started at you know number one and now we’re at 420. So Would it be possible that you get greater value if we sort of reset or took a pause and focused to prioritize? Let’s look at 10, 15, 20, maybe 25 to get value from the exercise so that you could kind of get further along towards your goals.

Toni:

Yeah. I really think we are often missing a trick by focusing on the actions rather than the desired outcome. And as you point out there, maybe the desired outcome was all these processes, like identifying are any of them actually valid anymore, like you know, why have we got this many? But we often miss the bigger picture. Do you get the chance in your work to kind of pull the company up to that bigger picture? Is that part of what you do?

Jessi:

it depends on who you’re working with. sometimes you’re working with someone in a C-suite that has legacy goals, you know, to leave their own legacy. sometimes you have shareholder expectations. so it really depends on what is their driver, who is owning the project, and again, kind of going back to what are their objectives.

So you can really kind of clarify and and work together. And in some cases, it’s just, hey, we want an assessment and an opinion, because we just want to validate what we’re doing. Or, you know, maybe we’ll uncover something and we’ll make a complete pivot. And it really depends. I mean, I’ve had one client who was like, I don’t really know where we’re going. I know that we have like regulatory goals to meet, and I want to try different paths to get there and I want to just if I’m going to fail, fail quick and move on. so in that case you kind of have more freedom and flexibility to really move quickly and kind of gain valuable lessons along the way and then turn those into accelerators. And then there are some clients who, you know, we want to be very lean, we want to just try this and see if it works. And if it does we realize we you know, we’re sort of building a plane in the air and we’re willing to kind of take the negatives so that we can see if there are any positives here. And then, you know, maybe after ten weeks, twelve weeks, we sort of step back and think about the the larger program. so those clients that are really willing to take a a risk and are not afraid of failure, I think become the most successful ones.

Toni:

And that actually leads me probably on to one of the things I really want to dive into with you. You mentioned right at the beginning, that part of what you do is automation, process adoption, all that kind of stuff, and AI adoption. And I AI obviously hot topic right now. And I there there’s so many bits of this that I want to pull on with you because of what you do.

Reluctance of people to adopt AI, how does that impact how you approach it? But I think let’s start with the outcome piece. Because I I had a conversation not that long ago on this podcast, and forgive me, I cannot remember who it was I was talking to, where she was talking about the the why the way we need to focus on adopting AI is to focus on how it helps our existing strategy, not have a standalone AI strategy. Because ultimately, AI should be there to support your existing strategy. And I thought that was a really interesting nugget of wisdom.

For you, when you’re going into a company and they’re saying, We need AI transformation, we need to adopt AI technologies and often it’s the CEO who’s pushing this or something like that, where do you start helping them understand what does that look like? What does the outcome how do you understand the outcomes they’re trying to gain with AI? Is it different from anything else or is it just the same process?

Jessi:

I think there it’s still important to have a bit of that education because if you really think about it, let’s just consider everyone has access to AI in some way, right? And you really need to think about, okay, well, how is the enterprise governing their AI?

Because if everyone has access to AI, then you could possibly argue that everyone is equal. But you’re not fundamentally changing the organization. So they still have the same rules, the same logic, the same business goals and focus. You’re just kind of taking all of those decisions, those business decisions that the organization has made.

in using AI to enable their business and to make their business more intelligent, but you’re still keeping their fundamental layer. So if they have an issue with their fundamental layer, throwing AI into the mix is not a magic bean solution. It’s still the same kind of tech transformation as there ever was. It’s just AI now. Not, you know, in your system.

Toni:

I wish more people would view it that way. It’s just the next tool in the toolkit. It’s the new calculator, it’s the new computer, it’s the new shiny object. It is just a tool in the toolbox, though. And I really like that. Because I one of the things that’s come out in the last couple of weeks is new research that says the majority of Americans, probably the majority of the world, but the the research I’m quoting is Americans are AI skeptics, are sick and tired of this being pushed down their throat, do not want to use AI, but are being forced to use AI.

by their companies. and basically people are starting to go, hell no. How are you seeing that play out in your role, where your role is to like change a business, how does that impact your work? What are you doing to get AI adoption? How do you get them to adopt AI right? So there’s buy-in, for example.

Jessi:

So again, it really goes back to education, but with the education, not just educating the buyer, the owner, but also the stakeholders and continuing to kind of clarify those objectives and goals with everyone that’s involved and including the users. So thinking about it more from a design perspective, you could have the most perfect solution. you know, the most perfect technology transformation, the most perfect AI tool. But if your users don’t want to use it, then it’s useless. And that’s again the same for just considering AI as another tool in the toolbox. Like if you could build them the best CRM system there ever was, but if they refuse to use it and they want to use a Rolodex, a paper Rolodex on their desk, if you can’t educate them on why their new system is important, then they’re going to continue to use that Rolodex. And I think that we start to see more of that now, especially with technology changing exponentially and in the shadow technology where, you know, the organization gives their different groups certain tools, but they’re kind of going to do the business the way that they think they should run the business anyway. So if you’re not working with them along the way, then it’s really difficult to get a win for everyone. So when you bring everyone along on the journey and really have a thoughtful, you know, kind of define the clarity up front and again kind of going back to those objectives and goals to to educate everyone and and bring them along the way. Cause If they’re resisting from day one, they’re certainly not going to change their minds.

Toni:

Yeah. A hundred percent. If they’re resisting, they’re not going to change their minds. Well, on that point, let’s pivot back to you in your career. One of the things you said to me when we first met is that you are and I love this, you are not afraid to call people out and challenge them when you’re ignored. For the audience’s benefit, just give us an example of that. Because I’d love for people to hear how you can call out, what situations you can call out.

And how that’s made a difference for you in your career, because I do think that is one of the most important lessons we can learn as women leaders when we are perhaps being ignored once too many one too many times.

Jessi:

Maybe why don’t you think about this microphone? You know, I’ve had this come up in different ways. And sort of the lesson that I learned is for me, going back to transparency, it’s helpful to be a little bit more proactive and transparent with your team and with your clients. But specifically, you know, when a firm is talking about the gender gap and you know, trying to kind of close a gender gap and there are these goals that we’re going to close a gender gap in you know x number of years and then you’re sitting in an office next to you’re a female sitting in an office next to a man and a and a more senior man walks in and talks to the other man to say, Hey, do you golf? And the answer is no. And then the senior man walks away,

It just feels like the right opening. Well, why did you ask him if he golfed? And he didn’t ask me if I golf. And then it really kind of changes someone’s perspective. you know, in his mind, he just didn’t even cross his mind to ask me because I was female. So if you know, a female American versus a male from South America, he’s like, I don’t golf, I play, you know, football. And Then the question turns back to me. Well, okay, well, do you golf? And my answer was yes. And that sort of was a pivot point. I think it was a learning lesson for the leader of our team. It was a lesson learned for myself that if it’s a very simple question and I have an answer to a question that someone was going to walk away from, that I should just, you know, kind of challenge that.

And so that I think was a lesson for everyone involved there. And what’s the downside? Maybe I called out, Hey, why’d you ask him and not me? And what otherwise could the answer have been? I don’t really like you.

so that was a good kind of experience and then I ended up golfing in a in the same charity tournament with a you know a number of people more senior than me for the next, I don’t know, six or seven years.

Toni:

Wow. Yeah. I and it just goes trick. A lot of the time I think we hold ourselves back from calling things out because we’re so fearful at that moment. I think it’s worth asking ourselves, What am I actually afraid of? What’s the worst thing that can happen? And I think we ask ourselves that often like the worst thing that can happen is not that bad. They say, I don’t really want to golf with you. Okay, great. You know that’s fine. You’re not you’re not going to somehow break because somebody said, Yeah, actually, not not what we not what I wanted, like, you know.

This guy here, he’s my mate, like I want to hang out with him, like we’re just colleagues, you know it’s not going to break you. And I think the same thing goes with like being ignored. your idea is ignored. You get to say, hey, I’d love to revisit my idea. What’s the worst thing you’re going to see do? They say no. Okay, fine, you’ve actually learned something. On that note, what would you say, also you’re six months into your new role, what would you say is your biggest challenge right now? Especially as a woman in a new role.

Are there any specific challenges do you think because of that? Or maybe I have a challenge that you think everybody would face in this role?

Jessi:

I haven’t encountered any challenges based on being a woman in this role. most of our challenges are right now being part of the US expansion team. Just sort of logistically, the US business culture is different from the other geographies, APAC. And so for example, working with financial institutions in the United States, just the lead time for you know onboarding itself before you can even do work for a client is much longer. It’s much longer than it was 10 years ago. It’s much longer than it is in other countries.

Again, kind of going back to, you know, you have to be really transparent with clients and say, you know, this could take six months, this could take 12 months. So, you know, if we can leverage agreements that have already been signed in other countries, that can accelerate us starting to provide value for you. So it just sort of helps to be really up front with that.

You know, and those sort of logistical requirements before you’re even really talking about what kind of value can we bring you. So.

Toni:

Yeah, a hundred percent. There there’s so much here that we could keep diving into, but let’s move on to the quick fly around. Are you ready for this?

Jessi:

Yes.

Toni:

Okay, let’s do it. What is the worst piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Jessi:

So maybe this is a bit more of a lesson learned. But you know, if you are working in a specific environment or even just personal, you can’t control the people around you, of course, but you can control yourself and set boundaries. So just kind of ignoring the people around you is horrible advice. You really need to set yourself up in a good environment with positive people who are kind of interacting with you positively. because you can’t just put your head down and ignore people. That is not getting you anywhere.

Toni:

No. A hundred percent. I think that extends to like surround yourself with people that are challenging you that are maybe the next level from where you want to be and you’ll start being there. If you surround yourself with horrible people, I mean that’s a recipe for somebody coming to me and saying I’m in a toxic environment. It’s often not so much that there’s a deliberate level of toxicity as like it’s toxic to you. And if you’ve just put your head down and ignored it, yeah, I yeah, ignoring people around you is terrible advice.

Jessi:

On the note, what is the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Jessi:

so I guess in a way this can be positive or negative as well. But the number one most impactful decision that you will ever make in your entire life is who you choose as your partner or your spouse. So if you choose wisely, then it lifts you up in all areas.

And provides many more opportunities and if you choose poorly, it is the opposite. So

Toni:

I completely agree with that. That’s something I’ve never really talked about on the show, but actually our partner, who whatever format that takes, is I think foundational to our success sometimes. and I don’t think that is recognized enough. We talk about how successful men often have a powerful woman behind them, and there’s now a growing recognition that a lot of successful women have a man behind them that he’s like propping them up. I think it’s more to do with that true partnership and obviously it applies to different kinds of relationships as well whether it’s a same sex relationship or it’s actually a best friend. I’ve seen prop people up as well. I think that’s really powerful. Like when a really good friend is your biggest cheerleader and who’s like yes you can do that uncomfortable thing. I have your back. I think that’s just the most beautiful gift you can give yourself is having those relationships. I love that.

Toni:

How can people find out more about you, what you do, what you do at synthesis? Where can can we connect with you?

Jessi:

you can find me on LinkedIn. You can also find our website. It’s synthesis.inc. and it’s a very clean and easy to navigate website. But yes, you can find me on LinkedIn, send me a message. I respond to all my messages. So it’s always great to get to know.

Toni:

Definitely give Jessi a follow on LinkedIn if you aren’t already. Jessi, before we wrap up today, any final thoughts that you’d like to leave the audience with?

Jessi:

I think, you know, sometimes you find success in discomfort. and I think at some point we talked about you know, women sometimes undersell themselves. So there’s probably discomfort in being your own biggest cheerleader. So you know, finding the partner that supports you, but also supporting yourself and speaking up for what you want and where you want to go and what you value.

Toni:

I love that. And that’s a nice way to bring together a lot of the themes we’ve talked about today. because I think a couple of things that have really stuck with me with this conversation with Jessi are have been around the transparency in your different outcomes, and that is often uncomfortable. You know, then Jessi’s just talked about the discomfort of being your own biggest cheerleader. It’s uncomfortable. Having a partner, taking the time to say Is this person really backing me? For some people, that can be very uncomfortable. Being more deliberate in the way we operate. And I really come back all the way to the start of this conversation around those outcomes, having true outcome and goal-focused conversations at the beginning of any project, any strategy development, anything like that. I think for a lot of people, individuals and therefore companies, it’s uncomfortable. But the best thing, this is what I’m going to really take away from Jesse’s conversation with me today.

The best things come when you step out of your comfort zone and have those harder discussions. That’s when you accelerate, that’s when your team accelerates, that’s when your work accelerates, it’s when your business accelerates, and honestly, it’s when your personal life also accelerates. Thank you, Jessi, for sharing all that with us today. I hope if you’ve listened to this, you’re thinking, how can I step out of my comfort zone this week to do something just a little bit uncomfortable that is going to make a difference?

If that sounds good to you, make sure you give us a follow on all the platforms. We love to hear from you. If there’s a topic that we haven’t covered recently that you would like to hear from us on, please drop a comment. We do read them all. But until next time, make sure you go and do something a little bit uncomfortable and change the world this week. Bye for now.