Speaker 1  0:00  

Before I tell you all about today’s interview on this podcast, let me ask you this: Are you sitting with overwhelming exhaustion, physical, mental, emotional? Are you sitting with a sense of cynicism and detachment from work you used to care about? Do you have a creeping feeling that you are no longer as affected as you once were, those are the clinical definition of burnout, and if you recognize yourself in any of those three, you’re not broken, you’re not failing, that is simply what burnout is, your body doing exactly what it was designed to do when it’s been under chronic, prolonged stress for too long. My guest today is Sheetalajmani, a physician who practiced pediatrics for over 16 years. You might be wondering, why is she on the podcast? Well, because she experienced burnout multiple times across her career, and eventually made the decision to step away from clinical medicine and bring everything she learned, both as a doctor and as a human navigating this, to the women she now coaches and speaks to across industries, and that’s why I got her under this podcast, because what I love about this conversation is that it doesn’t stay in the abstract. We get into what burnout actually is, not the buzzword version, but the clinical definition, the she knows, and why understanding it precisely matters for how you respond to it. We talk about something I coined in this conversation that I haven’t named before anticipatory burnout, that specific flavor of exhaustion that comes from knowing a change is coming, but not being able to make it happen yet, and then we get into self care, not the bubble bath version, not the two week vacation that doesn’t actually fix anything, the kind of self care that works, the micro moments, the one or two minutes, the small consistent habits that she tells clients keep telling her have made more difference than anything else they tried. Her answer to what is the one thing she wants every woman listening to start doing today is one of the simplest and most powerful pieces of advice in this episode. I won’t give it away, but it costs nothing, takes almost no time, and most of us have stopped doing it. If you are running on empty right now, this one is for you, and if you’re not, it’s still for you, because the best time to build these habits is before you need them. The next best time is when you need them. So, let’s get into it. Welcome to the Leading Women in tech podcast, the show that celebrates women in technology leadership. I’m your host, Tony Collis, and this podcast is the result of my passion for building better tech by diversifying the leadership of the technology sector. Join me on this journey as I discuss all things leadership, what it takes to be innovative, breaking through the glass ceiling, be a great leader, and how to navigate the unique experiences we face as women in tech. So, sit back, grab your headphones, and get ready to be inspired to become a better leader.

Speaker 2  2:56  

Welcome to the show, Sheetal. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me, Tony. It’s wonderful being here.

Speaker 1  3:02  

Well, let’s start with giving everybody a little bit of your background, because you are not like one of my typical guests. I normally have women in tech on. You’re a woman who was in medicine. Take us back to your career, the moments in your career that put you on the path to where you are today, and explain to everybody who you are today, and why you’re on this show.

Speaker 2  3:24  

Sure, so I am a physician turned speaker, coach, and consultant. I often get the question of how did you go from practicing medicine to doing what you do now, and it was a pretty long and winding journey, and like many journeys and life stories and trajectories messy along the way, and that’s part of what brought me to this show to have this conversation with you today, and to share with your listeners is some of those messy parts, and how that led to what I’m doing now, and sort of things that other women can can look out for as well, and so I was practicing as a pediatrician for over 16 years, and my very first semester in medical school, over 20 years ago, I started practicing yoga, and at that time it wasn’t as popular as it is now, but what that did for me is it planted these seeds of this is something that I want to dive deeper into, because I experienced a sense of calm and peace within myself that I had never experienced before, and so I knew that I wanted to study and become a physician and study Western modalities of healing and well-being, and I also wanted to study Eastern philosophy and Eastern practices of well-being as well, and so what that led me to do is become a certified yoga instructor and Ayurveda lifestyle consultant after I finished my medical training and residency in pediatrics, and I was working as a pediatrician, and I went and completed these other trainings as well, I. Ayurveda is the ancient medical system of India, which is a very unique framework that looks at the whole person when we look at self-care and well-being, and what I mean by that is, whereas in Western medical sciences we tend to focus on the physical body, on the physical level, unless you’re a psychiatrist, and then you’re working on that mental emotional as well. However, with the Eastern medical traditions, they really see that your emotions, your mindset, your relationships, your career, your daily habits, where you live, your sense of faith or spirituality that all of that impacts your health and well being, and so I carried this very holistic viewpoint with me while I was practicing medicine and also in my own personal life, so my trajectory in medicine also led me to experiencing burnout multiple times in my career, the earliest being my first year of practicing medicine, and so this professional and personal exploration that I had gone on of these eastern and western modalities of caring for myself, I had to go on a deep dive into putting those tools to use in my own life as I was navigating burnout, so all of that diving into that personal and professional exploration led me to seek ways that I could offer these tools to other people, and ultimately that led me to the work I’m doing now, where I’m doing speaking, coaching, and consulting. I primarily focus on working with women across all industries, navigating various personal and professional life challenges.

Speaker 1  6:54  

Yeah, I mean, one of the things we connected as fellow coaches, and one of the things that really struck me, listening to your story as somebody who you know, I was a techie, I went all the way through to it being a tech executive, you were practicing precision, and the number of similarities to our stories around burnout, around the stress, around the lack of support, the all the things that you and I now know, as coaches, are the ladders on the rung to full on burnout. The fact that you can say you had burnout multiple times, I mean, that should just never happen in my opinion, but it happens all the time. And I often think, you know, I support women in tech, it’s my passion. I truly believe the world needs better technology. What better way to do that than to support the women involved in building that technology, but I often think talking to technologists that we think we’re in a little bubble, and what really struck me was it was another reminder from another coach. This happens about once a year to me. Tech is not that different when it comes to the human condition, and there are far, far too many industries where burnout is common, is repeated, is not supported, is overlooked, and it’s to the detriment. I mean, we need better physicians out there. People who of us doesn’t want a doctor who has had a good night’s sleep, is well rested, is on their game, and yet we treat doctors like we treat tech executives. You’re only apparently useful for the number of hours you put in, which is so not true. What if what’s going on there in your mind? I’m, I’m, I’m searching for an answer here. I don’t necessarily believe there’s an answer to why. Do we keep doing this in every industry? Why do we keep allowing burnout to be somehow the thing we should be all doing,

Speaker 2  8:43  

that’s such a good question, and such a big question, and you’re right in saying there’s likely not a clear cut solution, it’s a multifaceted problem, and so it’s going to require a multifaceted approach, and I feel like the work that I’m doing with my clients and speaking is just one part of that approach, I believe that you see burnout is.. I’ll kind of go into a bit of a definition as well, for anyone listening right now. Burnout is an individual stress response within a social context, an individual stress response within a social context. What that means is that there are these external factors, most often described in the literature as job-related stress. However, we also know that burnout can occur in context of relationships and caregiving, and so there’s these external stressors, these external factors at play, and our body, our bodies as humans are really just doing what it’s meant to do to adapt to stress, and some small degree of stress is actually necessary and useful in our lives for growth. It’s a physiological response that occurs in our body, stress when your heart starts to be. Faster, your breath becomes shallow, your focus gets really heightened and aware of the problem, the situation at hand, and that’s a natural physiological response to something that we perceive as a threat or a stressful trigger. In our hunter-gatherer days, that was a tiger that we may have seen out hunting in our current day and age, that may be an email that we got, or a project deadline that just got moved ahead by a week, or you know, things of that nature, and some degree of stress is actually helpful, and science shows that up until a point it can actually increase your performance, increase your productivity. However, after that point, it no longer becomes helpful. That type of stress that is helpful, we call that eustress, EU stress. And then, when it goes over that peak, it goes into distress, meaning it’s no longer helpful. Perhaps your performance is starting to be impaired. You might be noticing some things within your physical body when that external pressure continues to stay, stay on you, and you continue to experience that. Then that can also, that can then lead to from distress to burnout. And there’s three primary characteristics of burnout: one is overwhelming exhaustion, physical, mental, emotional exhaustion. Another is a sense of cynicism and detachment from your work. And then the third is a sense of ineffectiveness, that you’re no longer as effective as you maybe once were, and that’s not to say that you aren’t as effective, but you may be sensing that yourself, you might be experiencing some of that self doubt in situations where you didn’t before, and so I wanted to sort of start out with those definitions, because well, Tony, we were just talking a little bit about how we’ve both experienced burnout before, and for me, my first time experiencing burnout, I didn’t know what it was

Speaker 1  12:00  

there, it

Speaker 2  12:01  

wasn’t. It was about 20 years ago, and it wasn’t taught. Actually, it was exactly 20 years ago, and it wasn’t talked about as much as it is starting to be talked about now. I didn’t know anyone else who was experiencing it, and my most recent episode of burnout was in 2022 and that’s actually when I decided to step away from clinical medicine, and that’s when I came across these definitions that I just shared with you, and I found it so helpful at that time to know that these things that I was experiencing, the overwhelming exhaustion, the sense of detachment, the sense of ineffectiveness, that that wasn’t me as a person, but that was simply what burnout is, and so that’s why I really wanted to emphasize that, and then the other reason that, for anyone listening, if you’re experiencing it, that’s just what burnout is, it doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you, that is the definition of burnout, that’s what it is, and it’s your body is doing what it’s meant to do when it’s faced with this consistent, chronic, prolonged exposure to stress.

Speaker 1  13:15  

I think it’s actually worth just pausing for a moment and talk about, because you said, you know, it’s not you, you’re not broken, you’re not doing anything. I think so many of us judge ourselves, and if I’m honest, each other about this a little bit, because two different people will experience the same thing. One will deal with it less well than another. One may end up in burnout, but something more stressed. And I also personally now experiencing how that evolves over your life as well, you know. I’m perimenopausal, definitely getting all the other symptoms. My anxiety has gone up. I deal with stress less well, though, now than I did a decade ago. And so, and I’m looking at myself and thinking, oh my gosh, grow up, Tony, and I’m like, that’s not helpful. And I’m the coach I was supposed to know, that’s not helpful, but I’m still. there’s that societal narrative that’s like ingrained in us, right? I can do better than this. I think we spend so much time judging ourselves and others. When what? Why can’t I deal with this right now? So, what have you got any insights into what what’s going on? I hinted at the hormone piece there with myself, but like, why can two different people or two different times our lives affect us so differently,

Speaker 2  14:23  

100% And honestly, that’s where I found Ayurveda so helpful for me in my own life as a framework of reference. And Ayurveda, once again, is the ancient medical system of India, and it’s also has a philosophy component to it, and it says that, and this was eye-opening and enlightening for me, and so I’ll share it here. It says that we were all born with unique strengths, qualities, quote unquote weaknesses, quote unquote imperfections, but we were all born with those set of qualities for specific reasons. And to do what we are meant to do in our life, and that looks different for every single one of us, and so what I love about this philosophy in this system is that it embraces, and it has helped me embrace that we all are completely unique and different, and to to offer ourselves that self compassion that what I can, what the factors that may cause me to experience burnout may be different than the factors that cause you to experience burnout, and that may also differ during different seasons of our life, and during different phases of our life, and that can also feel like a very hard thing to grasp. As humans, we crave belong, a sense of belonging, and being part of the tribe, being part of the pack, and so, if we experience something that we judge ourselves as being different or separate from, that can cause a lot of very real emotions and angst, and you know, another piece of that is, is the inner critic, as you mentioned, many of us can just, you know, already can like throw more oil on the fire, right? As you mentioned, you gave the perfect example, and it’s, it’s such the inner dialog that I have had myself many times over as well. What you said, of like, wait, I’m experiencing this, I’m not handling this well, and then I’m judging myself about it, and then, but I’m a coach, I help other people, I’m not supposed to judge myself, so it’s like you’re just adding layers and layers and layers, the layers

Speaker 1  16:51  

are immense, you’re, I mean, I’m supposed to have the whole toolkit, right, and yeah, I still feel that proud of this, I think it’s so interesting the way you see, you know, the different ways we experience this, because I, one of the things I talk to my clients a lot when they’re doing a lot of self-judging, and I’m like, I’ve known people get burned out from being a stay-at-home mom, I’ve known people having burnout from, like, working a part-time job, right? The most common place I work with clients in burnout is when they’ve decided they’re going to leave a role, but they’re not leaving yet, because they’re going to stay for a specific reason or job hunting, and the tension that’s created by I know I’ve emotionally decided I’m done, but I’m not allowed to be done yet, and I’ve got to walk into these meetings as if I’m not done almost inevitably, if they stay more than three months, we approach Brennan, and my job as their coach is to hold them through that and prevent it as much as possible, that anticipatory burnout is what I’m like coining that as I’m getting a better name for it, but the anticipation of a change that I’m not able to announce yet, or that hasn’t happened yet, almost always causes burnout, and yet we don’t talk about it enough, even like anticipating the end of a project that you know you’ve done all this, these months and months and months of work, and you’re almost at the finish line, that almost always seems to cause stress, that if it goes on for too long, causes burnout. It’s like just the core, just the approach of the finish line. Why, why do we do this to us? Are we doing it to ourselves? I don’t think we are doing it ourselves. What, why is this all coming up like that?

Speaker 2  18:26  

Yeah, that’s such an interesting, interesting question. And I like that phrase that you coined there, of the anticipatory burnout. You know, I can share it. It makes me think of when I made the decision to leave clinical medicine in 2022 for physicians we have to give a lot longer notice than a lot of other professions, so I contractually had to give six months notice before leaving, and so again, you know, why do we do these to ourselves? I had already reached the point of burnout, already reached the point of burnout, actually. Well, beyond burnout and trauma, there was some degree of trauma there that I was experiencing also through having worked in medicine through the pandemic and all of that, and so I had already reached beyond that point when I decided to give in my notice, and then I had six more months, and it was so, so difficult when you’re already at that point, so challenging, and you know, for anyone listening, if you’re, if you’re at that point, definitely reach out for support, you know, I reached out for support from family, friends, professional support, and as well as my colleagues, a lot of my colleagues pitched in in ways that I could have never guessed to support me and to help me in in during that that time and so you know a couple things, one is and you didn’t directly ask this question, but I’ll go ahead and chat on it a little bit of like why do we even wait that long, like why did I wait that long until. I was already, you know, well, well burned out, and there’s so many reasons, there’s so many of, like you said, those societal reasons, expectations, spoken or unspoken, and then there’s the ones that we place on ourselves, like you, like you shared an example earlier, of like, oh, I should be able to handle this, oh, my colleagues are able to do this, or, oh, it will get better. Maybe it’ll just get better, and all of that. I believe has utility, that is your mind processing it, that is your mind trying to make sense of it. And then your other question, of like, when something is about to end, when you’re about approaching that deadline, that sort of anticipatory, I think part of it could also be one is if you’ve already reached that level of burnout and you’re still having to sort of push through, it’s only going to continue to exacerbate until we can kind of release our foot from that gas pedal, but also it’s the uncertainty that lies on the other side of it that can then be again another sort of stressful trigger in a different way as well.

Speaker 1  21:08  

Yeah, so one of the things I want to do is actually shift gears and talk about self-care, because all of this I love understanding, and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, like we like, we like to have an explanation, and I could talk about that all day, but ultimately, if we have recognized from the symptoms you’ve described, that okay, I’ve got burned out. We need to know what to do, and there’s this phrase, self care. It kind of drives me a little bit nuts. I know that is a phrase you are passionate about, but drives me a little bit nuts, because I think a lot of people think self care is having a bubble bath, getting a manicure and going and buying a handbag, and I’m like, no, that doesn’t work. So that’s that’s pretty like, why is self-care the antidote to burnout? And what do you actually mean by self-care? Because I know that’s a topic you are very passionate about.

Speaker 2  21:56  

Yes, absolutely. So first of all, I want to say again, just kind of reiterate, it is a multifaceted approach. The factors that contribute to burnout, as we’ve just been talking, is multifaceted. The sort of antidote I will not sit here and say, as passionate as I am about self-care, I will not sit here and say that that is the one and only antidote to burnout, because it is multifaceted, and because those ex. because it is related to these external pressures. Sometimes those external things in that external situation need to change, whether that’s systemic level things, sociocultural expectations, whether it’s you shifting that yourself. Sometimes things in that external environment do actually need to change, and here is where I think that self-care can be so powerful, because when we practice self-care, we are then able to show up as our best selves, and to really evaluate what are those situations, what are those things in our external environment that do need to change, and or actually be those leaders and step into those spaces to make those changes, because all of a sudden we’re able to show up as our whole selves, and so self care, as you mentioned, yes, a lot of people, when I give my keynotes about self care, their initial impressions are okay, that means that I need to take the bubble baths, schedule massages, go to the hour long yoga classes, go on vacations, you know, two or three times a year, whatever it may be. And there’s also this perception that it needs to take a lot of time, that it needs to take a lot of time to do all of those things, and while those are all forms of self care, those are not the only forms of self care, and I would argue that actually the most impactful forms of self care are the ones that we do on a regular consistent basis, and that we built into our daily lives, and often those are when I’m working with my clients, I’m guiding them to make and integrate the smallest changes into their lives, the smallest habits and routines that don’t take a lot of time at all, and those are the ones that they find to be the most impactful.

Speaker 1  24:15  

It’s about finding the ones that work for us, right? I mean, the most powerful form of self-care I give myself, and I know it’s self care, because it’s a thing that goes when I’m stressed, or when you know something, my life is top turvy. I try and keep five minutes between all my appointments. I have 50 minute appointments and 25 minute appointments. I should always have five minutes, but when I’m stressed, I will find either I don’t keep control of my calendar is strongly like I will let a client overrun more than I mean, there are times to allow a conversation to overrun, but it shouldn’t be all of them, right? And in addition, I will find myself just sitting at my computer frantically doing five minutes work, I’m like, no, no, the best for self-care for me is to turn away from my. Screen, do some stretches, do some squats, make a cup of tea. I could do a lot in five minutes, but it’s the first thing that goes when I’m stressed out. What do you think we should be looking for if we’re trying to identify those micro moments of self care, as well. I like to call them micro moments. How can we figure out what that looks like for us as individuals?

Speaker 2  25:21  

Yeah, that’s a great question. I think the first step is recognizing and acknowledging that it doesn’t have to be a lot of time, it can be five minutes, it can be as short as one or two minutes. I’ve guided many of my clients to start with just one or two minutes of connecting with themselves at certain times of day, and so it requires one knowing that it doesn’t need to be a lot of time looking at your schedule, and this is where it can be very individualized and very customized, is really looking at your schedule, and I’ll give you some examples of clients I’ve worked with and what’s worked with them, just because that might help anyone listening, and kind of think of where they can fit this into, you know, your own life as well, you gave a wonderful example of the five minutes between meetings and really setting that boundary within your calendar and for yourself to create that protected time. I was working with a client who felt anxious much of the day at work, and he wanted to learn meditation. He specifically came to me to learn meditation, thinking that that would help, so he knew that that was a tool that he wanted to lean into. And we started with, I said, you know, just one or two minutes in the morning, that’s it, it doesn’t have to be more than that. And he was so skeptical, he was like, I really don’t think one or two minutes is going to make a difference, and I said, just try it, just, just, you know, just try it, and he tried it, and he said that made such a big difference. And then he started to integrate that same practice. It was a practice of being aware of his breath when he was feeling, starting to feel anxious, and noticing tensions rising during meetings. Yes, I

Speaker 1  26:55  

love that. I call those like micro self reflections, and you literally just enemies in a meeting, you notice you’re stressed, like I call it notice, pause, reframe, notice the issue, pause, and then reframe the situation, but that pause, that can be literally 20 seconds, if you can just give yourself 20 seconds, where it doesn’t matter that you’ve just missed what was said, it can be the biggest gift you give yourself every day. I think it’s incredible,

Speaker 2  27:24  

exactly. And you hit the nail on the head. I mean, it can be just 20 seconds. When I was seeing patients, and I was going from room to room, seeing, you know, 30 patients a day, and I needed to be.. I needed to be, and.. and it was a standard that I held myself to to show up and be fully present for each one of my patients, and so that’s a lot of pivoting throughout the day, being double booked and seeing 30 patients, and so it was as simple as just taking a few breaths while I was washing my hands before I went into the next room, you know, things like that. I had another client who was wanted to start, we worked together, and she decided that she wanted to start a gratitude practice of just before she even got out of bed in the morning, spending a few minutes to reflect on all that she could feel grateful for, and so we set a very small goal of five minutes two or three times a week she started doing that, and it quickly over a few weeks period expanded to 20 minutes every day, but that was just because she loved it so much, and so what happens also is when you start with these small goals, they can stay small in terms of relatively small time commitments, and be very impactful, and also, what can happen is you can find that you enjoy it so much that it just naturally starts to expand in your life as well.

Speaker 1  28:52  

Yeah, yeah, and I love that. I love that so much. Well, if there is a listener, a woman, hopefully, whether the romantic listeners do this too, but somebody is listening to this right now, nodding her head along the way. She’s like, “Okay, that’s me. I don’t have boundaries. I am anxious, you know? I, you know, I’m looking at the next thing, and it’s causing me stress, or like staying here is causing me stress. What is the one thing you want her to start doing today? Like, one thing that we can all start doing to meaningfully take control of our situation.

Speaker 2  29:26  

Yes, the one thing I would say is find some way to connect with yourself daily, whatever that means for you, whatever that looks like for you, whether that means one minute of gratitude every morning, whether that means sipping on your morning coffee for a few minutes without looking at your phone, whether that means reading something that inspires you, but taking some finding some way to connect with yourself on a regular basis.

Speaker 1  29:57  

Yeah, I have to say that morning. Cuppa, that has always has, that’s been one of my grounding things ever since I realized in my early 30s I had an anxiety problem, just holding into my cup of coffee, breathing it in, concentrating on that coffee rather than all the noise in my brain, the things going on, I could be staying in a hotel, walking to a conference, and I just take that moment to breathe in the coffee for me that has been so grounding. Whenever I feel like my stress getting out of control, things are slipping, and I think all of us can find something like that. For me, coffee is like it’s like a need, and so I just love the smell and taste of coffee. Anyway, so that really works, but I think finding that that thing that really just is you is so, so important. So I’m so glad you shared that with us. The woman of gratitude, I love that idea as well. And something that inspires you, I think the one caveat I’d give to that is don’t make it really, really, really work-related. Have something inspirational that’s not like also just directly parallel to your stress source, or whatever your stress is. If it’s your kids, don’t make it about being the best parent in the world. Have something inspiring that’s unrelated to your stress. Right.

Speaker 2  31:10  

Exactly. I was delivering a keynote not too long ago, and one of the reflections from one of the attendees for him specifically was like his big takeaway from it was that he always thought that self care meant self improvement, meaning that he has to actively do things like you just said, of like reading something that is specifically going to make him a better business leader, that is specifically about, you know, strategy or how he’s showing up, or that sort of thing, so he equated self care with self improvement in that way, and again, while that can be a form of self care, he came to realize, no, what I really need to do is things that make me happy just to make me happy, and that give me joy just to experience joy, and so just what you shared about choosing what you read in those moments, and choosing things not only in terms of what you read, but what you do to connect with yourself, choosing those things that really make you feel good.

Speaker 1  32:13  

Yeah, 100% We can always be learning. I think sometimes we learn more when we turn off a little bit. I could talk about this one all day, because it’s such a topic dear to my heart. I obviously have a self-selecting audience, and most – I would say all the women I’ve ever worked with have experienced by now at some point. Sometimes it’s the reason they come to me; other times they’ve experienced it before, they’re considering quitting the technology industry as a result. And I’ve personally experienced it, and I therefore I suspect every human on the planet experiences it, and that is devastating. When we realize the human cost, which we haven’t even talked about, but the human cost is immense. You and I are cases in point. We have done a career pivot because of our burnout, or at least for me it was multiple things. Burnout was part of the equation, and I pivoted. I left the technology industry. I’m now tech adjacent by helping the tech industry, but I am a technologist with lots of training. You’re a physician with lots of training, that is a cost to the human race, and that’s something I truly hope that we can help counter in our work now as coaches. But let’s move on to the quick fire round. Are you ready for this?

Speaker 2  33:16  

I am.

Speaker 1  33:17  

What’s the worst piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Speaker 2  33:20  

So this was a marketing advice, and it was that I needed to make my Instagram profile more, quote unquote, radiant. So my company’s name is Radiant Living Institute, and what they meant by that was pictures of me traveling or eating like luxurious meals, or exactly what you and I, Tony, were just talking about the perception of what self-care is, as opposed to what I truly believe it is, and what I’m truly sharing with my clients, and speaking, so to me that was the worst piece of advice, because it was completely misaligned and inauthentic with who I am, and so, of course, I didn’t follow that advice.

Speaker 1  34:01  

I love that, because I think that circles right back to burnout. Right, don’t do something misaligned. You kind of need that. And I, so much advice is given to us, you and I as entrepreneurs, but leaders are in our corporate professions, whatever it is, like well-intentioned but completely uninformed. It’s like, oh my goodness, and a former self-care is going, “No, that’s not me. And I really, truly think that’s a form of self-care. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Speaker 2  34:29  

Be kind to yourself,

Speaker 1  34:31  

that is beautiful. What a beautiful best piece of advice. How can people connect with you? Because this has been completely amazing. So, how can people find out more about you, more about what you do, follow you online. I know you also have a podcast. Where can we find you online?

Speaker 2  34:48  

Absolutely. So, the best place to reach me is Radiant Living institute.com that is my website. My podcast is Essential Self Care, where we dive into topics like this. And more, and I’m also active on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1  35:04  

Brilliant. I will make sure that all those links are in the show notes, so if you’re listening to this and you want to go and follow Shell, go to the show notes, click on there, give her a follow wherever you like to follow people, and I would highly recommend her podcast as well. If you’re looking for anything to do with self-care, she has some interesting guests, including me, at some point later in the year, so go and check that one out. Absolutely, this has been amazing, and as I said, we could talk about this all day. It’s such an important topic, one that I think a lot of people touch on, but don’t fully understand, and that’s why I’ve really liked your approach, because as a physician, you really get it. As somebody who’s experienced it, you really get it. As somebody who coaches people through it, you really get it. On a layer that I don’t think most people do. So, with that in mind, what final thoughts do you want to leave the audience with today?

Speaker 2  35:52  

Two of my core principles of Radiant Living Institute, which is one, that a radiant life starts from within, it starts from understanding ourselves better, and all of these life challenges, including burnout, are I see them as opportunities for us to understand ourselves better. So, a radiant life starts from within, and that small changes make a large impact.

Speaker 1  36:18  

I think that piece there, small changes make a large impact, is the biggest thing I want to take away, and I really want everybody to really follow through on that. To me, has been the biggest game changer, and I think she thought has hit the nail on the head with the work she’s doing, that she’s also seeing that the small things really do add up, and I think so much of the time we’re like, I can’t do that. I can’t take an hour out to do that. You don’t need to take an hour out. You don’t need to go and spend 20 vacation days that you don’t have. Don’t get me wrong, I think 20 vacation days are fabulous, but they aren’t going to solve your burnout problem. So take some time for yourself. If you do anything else this week, take a few moments for yourself, as she saw, says it’s a form of self-care to understand yourself, to slow down, to understand your brain, just even recognizing what she’s, and I didn’t recognize, which is I am in burnout. The earlier we do that, the earlier we recognize we’re stepping towards it, the less deep it goes. So give yourself the gift of slowing down today, finding just a minute or two for yourself, connecting with yourself, having a moment for gratitude or self-reflection or self-inspiration. Take a moment, and if you found this episode inspiring, please do give us a comment, a like, a share, a review, if you’re on Apple or Spotify, and I would love to hear from you on whether this episode has resonated with you, and please do go and give it sheet out a follow as well. Until next time, bye for now.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai