Lead with Confidence: Building Teams That Don’t Need You – with Sandy Motley

Toni Collis:

What does it really take to lead a high performing team without being the one who’s always in the room? And how do you grow your influence as a woman in engineering or telecom, especially when you’re the only one who looks like you at the table? In today’s episode, I’m joined by Sandy Motley, former president of Fixed Networks and current SVP at Nokia, and executive with over 25 years of experience building high trust, high impact teams in one of the most male dominated industries out there.

We’ve talked about how to build a team that doesn’t need you, why that’s important, how to lead with confidence in the room and from a distance, and why the best leaders don’t always have to be the loudest or the most technical voice. Sandy shares insights on how to step into strategic leadership without over-functioning, why autonomy and trust are essential to scaling your impact, how to coach your team through conflict without taking it all on yourself, and what it really means to lead with authenticity in a high-pressure, high-visibility role.

If you’ve ever felt that you’re essential and it’s hard to step back or you’re unsure how to get recognized for your leadership, this one is for you. This is going to hit home today. So let’s dive on in to the episode. 

Welcome to the show, Sandy. Thank you for joining us today.

Let’s start with where I love to start most of these interviews. Share with us your journey and how you became an executive leader in Nvidia today. How did you get there? What have you learned along the way?

Sandy Motley:

Okay, and I’m going to start when I was very young because certainly that’s shaped and influenced my life and my career as well. And I’m going to start with my dad who started out as a blue collar worker and as a machinist and he worked his way up eventually getting a college degree, taking 20 years to get one, and moved into a programming position.

And my mom also started out as a clerk in a department store and moved her way up into a management position. So my life at home was very much about working hard, really strong work ethic. My dad had three jobs and was going to school. My mom was working, taking care of us, all of those things. that was very important and hard work.

I was given the great opportunity to go to school and that was an opportunity my parents didn’t have out of the gate. And I went off to engineering school before I joined the workforce. And I started out as an engineer at AT &T Bell Laboratories before they split up into Lucent and the evolution of where the company is today.

But again, I started out in design and development in telecommunications, and I did work with the US Navy to start out with. And I want to start there because it was really a foundation for me on how I developed products. really, also for me as a woman in engineering, it really started that position. I attended many, meetings where there was maybe just one woman, just me, or maybe at times two and there was 200 men in Navy uniforms, captains and admirals. And very quickly I needed to get used to this environment and it really didn’t matter. I was able to kind of ignore the differences. I went through a lot of rigor in the process there where what the Navy requires is you to define the requirements, explain how you’re going to make the requirements, and then prove that you have met those requirements. So that’s true for designs, but it’s also true in everything I do every day, because it’s very important that you cover requirements and that you make sure that you’re meeting expectations, right? So whether it’s about the job or whether it’s about design. So that was my start.

And it was a great, I think it was a great foundation. It was a great opportunity. And then over the course of my career, I had multiple roles, know, different functions, which I thought was a key thing to bring broad perspective into my career. So manufacturing support, product management, sales, business strategy, pre-sales.

And I was always around people. I started as a technical manager only a year and a half out of university. And from there, I moved into other leadership roles into where I am today. And teams were really always part of the equation. And it was very important for me to build trust, authenticity, and teamwork is really key to my whole career and my history.

Toni Collis:

And I know that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to get you on the podcast was that team element. I think for over long time, think you really embody what it means to be a leader of a team and leveraging the team that I think many of the people I talk to really understand. It’s not that they aren’t great leaders, they are, but you just get it. I feel like it’s like the foundation of who you are in a way that I don’t hear very often.

And so I do want to dig into that, but actually, I’m just going to take a little bit of a side note. You mentioned the rigor that came from working with the Navy, the requirements gathering, the requirements setting. And I mean, I think that makes success in your team. And I also today believe that’s what’s going to be required of all of us to make better use of AI, right? We’re moving into an AI enabled world. So would you agree with those statements? Is that requirements gathering part of your success and how do you see it moving forward with AI?

Sandy Motley:

Yeah, absolutely. And it’s not, you can’t ignore some of the requirements. And I think this, you know, gets into AI, you need to really cover all the requirements, not just those that you like, or those that are important, you need to follow up with all of them. And you know, AI is about gathering information, gathering all the information so that intelligence can be used to define an outcome. So I think it’s very much aligned with, you know, this, this whole push and where the world is heading in terms of automation and artificial intelligence helping to define and improve the outcomes that we have.

Toni Collis:

So let’s talk about AI, because I think from what you’re saying about the rigor that you had in the Navy, it should be that same rigor in my opinion, is what enables us to adopt AI in our workplaces. So what are you doing at Nokia to adopt AI? Is that something you can share with us?

Sandy Motley:

Sure, AI is in every step now of what we do. So it’s in our internal processes on how we do things operationally in the office to get things done internally. But it’s also external. So our customers are using our products to gather information so that they can predict failures. So they can predict how they need to configure their networks. So it’s definitely in things that we do every day and it’s certainly building to be even a more important role as we go forward.

Toni Collis:

Okay, let’s shift gears, because the thing you and I really want to talk about is team building. One of the things you said to me when we first met is that you believe fundamentally in building a team that doesn’t need you. And this really resonated with me, because it’s what I’m always telling my clients, and they’re like, but what happens when they don’t need me? So let’s just dig into this whole topic. It’s a big one. Let’s start off with what do you mean by building a team that doesn’t need you?

Sandy Motley:

So for me, the potential of a team is so important, my team, any team. And it’s to be the most effective, efficient, innovative, problem-solving team. And it’s very powerful. Business is a team sport. So if we can get to the best team that we can be and a team that doesn’t necessarily need me to solve the problems, that to me is success.

And I believe in the one plus one equals three philosophy. So when teams collaborate really effectively, they achieve more than the sum of the parts. If you bring in a procurement specialist with a designer, they can achieve a lot more. They can be more innovative than they could individually. And the philosophy from Bell Labs, if I go back to a bit of my history is they do believe that collaboration of different fields of science and functions, true innovation lies at the boundaries. And I think it’s similar for teamwork. So across those different functions, the teams can be more creative together. And in my field, it’s about being first to the market with new technologies. That is how you win. That’s how you gain the most market share.

So I love that concept and I love to see individuals spread their wings. I’d love to see them be more successful than they think they can be themselves. And that’s why I feel it’s important for the teams to be independent and for them to be able to work through problems by themselves and hopefully eventually not need me.

Toni Collis:

So let’s talk about that second piece, what happens when they don’t need you because this is the objection I get when I talk to clients about this. They’re like, then what do I do?

Sandy Motley:

there’s actually a couple of things that I think happen when they don’t need me. So for one, the next leader can be identified. The next leader sometimes comes to the surface when there’s a team that’s independent. So that’s kind of one outcome. And the second is that I can focus more on strategic initiatives. Could focus more on future planning and on future activities. And to me, this is critically important for us to not just solve today’s problem, this year’s problem, but to really make sure that there’s a foundation and there’s fundamental activities to define the future of the business. Because we want to be strong for many years, not just in the short term. So I think that’s That’s a big outcome. And then I’ll say lastly, people grow and people can be more effective individually and as part of the team when this phenomena of not needing the leader anymore comes into play.

Toni Collis:

Absolutely, I mean, I think not needing the leader allows so much scope. And I think this is the fear, like we fear that we’re not going to going to be needed, but I think actually what you’re doing is you’re saying, I’m ready for that next level, because a company is already always looking for that next level. And when we’re in the weeds managing our teams, we’re not looking at the next thing, we’re reactive, rather than proactive, we’re not being strategic, we’re being tactical. So If you were to coach one of your direct reports on this concept, if you were saying to them, hey, it’s time for you to make yourself unnecessary to your team, what would they say to you? I maybe they were already there because you’re there, you’re a team, but like, what do they typically say to you? Like, how are they feeling?

Sandy Motley:

At first it’s maybe a scary proposition because, you know, no one wants to not be needed, right? You feel as a leader you want to be needed. But, you know, as we work through it, as we discuss it, then people understand, wow, I could free myself up to think about this other set of problems and I don’t need to be hands-on in everything that’s going on every day.

So there’s a bit of a freeness and there’s a bit of freedom that also comes out of such a transformation, such a transition when that occurs.

Toni Collis:

I tell people all the time, if you want to level up, you need your team to level up so they can support you at the next level. Otherwise, you aren’t going to level up and if you’re not leveling up, your company isn’t leveling up. And if your company is not leveling up in five years time, you’re going to be irrelevant and not a company anymore. So I think it’s actually necessary. It’s not a nice to have. In my view, if you’re a successful leader, it’s actually mandatory, but I think most people don’t understand that.

Sandy Motley:

I agree with you. I think leveling up for everyone is critical. And part of that is also, you know, examining your own behaviors, your own patterns, you know, blocking off time, as I said, you know, strategic thinking, not just daily operations and daily crises. So there’s a lot that can come out of that kind of a transformation, that kind of thinking and that kind of growth of the team and growth of individuals within the team as well.

Toni Collis:

Yeah. You’d be like one of my like perfect clients who actually does the homework of like, well, let’s block some time for strategic thinking. Like, let’s get you out the weeds. Let’s delegate the firefighting. Unless somebody’s actually dying, you know, don’t need to be involved kind of thing. You’re perfect client. I just wish more people would like hear that. It really makes a difference. It’s like, it so makes a difference. 

Okay, well let’s move on to your elitist philosophy. You said to me when we first met that you’ve got elitist philosophy. So can you share with us what it is and why does it matter so much to you?

Sandy Motley:

Yeah, so I’ll say probably the most important thing about my philosophy is collaboration is key and brainstorming. And that’s come out already in terms of teamwork and team building. And I think it’s really all about people are capable of more than they think they can be, giving people autonomy to succeed and to fail. And when we do fail, because everybody does, helping them to find out where and why and really having the discussion immediately. So those are certainly some elements of my philosophy and also dedicating time to strategic thinking. think that is something maybe earlier in my career I didn’t do as much as I should have or as much as I think is important. So that’s a key part of my philosophy today for sure.

And I’ll say also be the leader that’s tied to who you are, especially as women in leadership. We need to be who we are. We don’t need to be a leader like a man or like your neighbor or like another woman. We all need to be who we are so that we can be the most effective, we can react quickly. Because if you’re thinking about how somebody else is going to react or how someone else is going to be a leader, then you’re not thinking about the problem as much as you could and should. And I’ll say maybe the last thing about my philosophy is making myself available when folks ask for guidance. I want people to be independent, but I know that that’s not always the case. And I also know it’s hard to ask for help. When people come and ask for help, maybe they think that’s a failure. I think it’s a huge success.

to be able to understand when you haven’t solved a problem or when you need help solving a problem. So I really try to make myself available as soon as possible because I know it’s important to move to the next step when people ask for help.

Toni Collis:

that because there is you’re right there’s a balance between encouraging independence helping them deal with ambiguity right one of the classic things you have to deal with as you’re leveling up and I’m sure the people under you because of the level you’re at in your organization I would expect the leaders under you to have to be able to deal with ambiguity I know earlier on in your career you’re not so there is a level of like you’ve to be able to deal with it but at the same time you’re spot-on that it’s so hard to ask for help how do you get the balance right of encouraging them to solve their own problems. But as you say, being there to help as needed and opening up, removing the ambiguity when you can.

Sandy Motley:

Yeah, I’d say part of it is making sure that you’ve got the right relationship with, you know, individually with the team members, you know, as well as with the team as a whole. Because when you do have a strong relationship and a good open relationship, you know, you’re talking often and, sometimes it’s not a big deal to bring up a topic about something that you might need help with. So I think it’s about communication.

I think it’s about strength in relationship. I think it’s about trust and also having a level of openness and people not worrying about talking about things where maybe they didn’t do things as well as they could or they should. So it’s very much about the relationship.

Toni Collis:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you also mentioned to me previously about coaching your team to take the high road. I’m assuming this is related. I can make all sorts of assumptions here. So tell me first of what do you mean by taking the high road and how does this all relate to your leadership philosophy?

Sandy Motley:

So, you know, for me, if someone made a mistake, you know, or if somebody even did something on purpose that wasn’t, you know, helpful to the team, you know, the philosophy is, you know, let’s move on. Let’s not blame. Let’s not point things out in terms of someone, you know, someone bringing up something or doing something that was, you know, detrimental to the team or to the project. It’s really all about you know, let’s find the way to move forward. Let’s find the way to do things better because, you know, that keeps the fights down certainly on the team, but it also is an environment where other people want to work with us because, you know, the team, you know, doesn’t highlight when there’s issues, doesn’t highlight when somebody made a mistake, you know, whether it was on purpose or whether, you know, it wasn’t on purpose.

And we tend to have a positive force on the team that resonates across everyone. being positive is certainly helpful in the day to day. You don’t digress and blame folks, talk about the negativity. It’s about being positive. It’s about taking the high road. And it’s about moving forward for success in the future. And that’s what’s most important for results.

Toni Collis:

I personally just, I want to just hone that in because I think this is one of those things that I don’t think we realize how much this means until we’ve experienced it. I remember one time when I was a new leader and I made a big mistake and it cost money. I owned up to it and I felt, I really thought that was it. I thought that was the end of my career. I didn’t have a lot of psychological safety at that company. It wasn’t the best leadership.

It wasn’t great, but you know what happened? This was when I realized actually this leader wasn’t the best leader, but he had good intentions. He was like, I get it. I’ve messed up too. Thank you for being honest. And he held me through it and we talked about how to fix it. What he admired was the fact that I came forward. didn’t just try and hide it, but honestly, hardest thing I’ve done was coming forward. And from that day, I mean, I say to my team all the time. I say to my clients all the time, come forward with your mistakes.

If you don’t come forward quickly, you can’t fix them quickly and you’re also not leading by example, ensuring people that we’re human, we will make mistakes, we will mess up. What matters is the recovery, in my opinion. So I just, really want everybody to hear that. Is there anything you would say on that, Sandy, to just, I really want the audience to hear this one, I think it’s so important.

Sandy Motley:

Yeah, so if we’re going to fail, we need to also fail fast, just like you did. You brought it forward. As soon as it happens, don’t let it fester. Don’t let things get worse. It’s important to bring issues to the table because there’s lots of people that can help, not just your boss, but your colleagues and peers. And if we identify things quickly, we get out of it more quickly, and it doesn’t become a bigger problem.

Toni Collis:

Well, let’s talk now about what it takes to level up. I want to talk about you leveling up as a leader, but also what it takes to level up your team, particularly empowering your team. So let’s tackle that one. We’ve talked a lot about all the items, I think, that actually really help us level up, but what does it look like for somebody at your level to level up? And then what does that mean in terms of your team? How you deal with crises, how you get your team to deal with things?

How do you handle all of this and level up the entire org as a result?

Sandy Motley:

Yeah, so I mean, we’ve talked about a little bit of this. So it’s really related to examining your behaviors and your patterns and asking for honest input about leadership effectiveness, learning from your failures, yours as well as others, and treat them as growth opportunities as opposed to failures. Try to turn them around. And as I’ve shared, block for thinking, you know, beyond just the daily operations. Try to move yourself out of, you know, being responsive all the time and move yourself into a space of being proactive. I think those are things that I don’t always do well or perfectly, but yeah, but things that are, you know, important. And in a crisis, you know, stay calm. you know, step in when speed matters, you know, if it’s a team that’s working through a crisis and ensure that everyone understands the priorities, you know, when, when, you know, it’s typically a team sport when you need to address a crisis and the team needs to understand the priorities and they also need to understand the rationale as to why this is a priority, why it’s important. So I think these are the things and the steps.

that are important during a crisis and to be able to turn things around. And when you don’t get it right, you need to analyze what didn’t go right and why so that next time you could do it better. Because we need to try again. In business, in everyday life, we don’t typically get things right the first time.

I know deals with customers when we have to put offers in front of customers about what we’re looking for them to purchase and this competition. Sometimes we do that 10 times before we get it right. So the first failure is not necessarily a failure. It’s a step to us getting to number 10 where we finally win. So it’s a step forward.

Toni Collis:

Yeah. Yeah, I love that so much. It is, it’s just about learning all those pieces. And you should say being proactive. think being proactive is something so few of us do well. As you say, it’s hard. I would agree with that. It’s so easy to move into reactive mode when life is bombarding you with stuff. And especially if you’re like me and you get excited about all the things. It’s like, let’s just take a step back and calm down here. But We really make a change when we’re in that proactive mode rather than reactive mode. When we are taking a step back from the fire and saying, well, rather than just dealing with the fire, how can I make sure this doesn’t happen again? So few of us spend the time doing that. We think we don’t have the time, but I don’t want everybody to know you can make the time. It’s choosing to make the time because you do spend a lot of your day doing things that are choice. It just, in your head, your brain’s saying, I’ve got to do this, but it is still a choice.

Anybody wants to have that conversation with me, DM me on LinkedIn. Like, let’s have that conversation.

Sandy Motley:

We need to sometimes push the emails aside, push the requests aside and think about what’s the most important thing to do right now, to do today.

Toni Collis:

I was watching an interview last night. I can’t remember who it was. Somebody was saying that one of the questions they were asked by their executive is, many times have you said no? And the guy was like, well, I said no to this, this, and this. And the guy was, and the CEO was like, no, that’s not what I meant. You said no to things you don’t want to do. How many times today have you said no to things you want to do? And I thought that was a really good way of framing this moving away from reactive because a lot of our reactive stuff is stuff we want to do in some form or other. It feels like pressure sometimes, sometimes it’s desire, but either way it’s saying no to things that we want rather than saying no to things that are like, well, I don’t really want to do that anyway. How many times a day do you say no to things you want to do? Is a good way of measuring are you being proactive rather than reactive? Am I, my humble opinion. Yeah, that’s a good question.

Sandy Motley:

Yeah, so now I’m going to have to think about that today. So thank you, Toni. That’s a great measure.

Toni Collis:

Go and ask your team that today. That’s where I’m going to start. I’ve got a team meeting after this. I’m going to totally ask them. They’re going to be like, where did this come from, Toni? I love it. Well, okay, next question about being a woman leader. How has being a woman in this industry changed the way you lead today? Has it at all? If it has, how has it changed you?

Sandy Motley

Yeah, I think it has. I’m a mom, as well as certainly being a leader. I think being a mom has been incorporated in my leadership style in some ways. I’m much more of a nurturer. And this is why team is so important to me, whether it’s your work team or your family team. You want your children to be the best they can be. the people I work with on the team are not my children, but certainly it’s a similar concept. I want them to be independent. I want them to have my job or go well beyond what I can do. I want success for the team and for people that I work with. And I think that’s maybe part of what I’ve brought to the table as a woman leader. And I also want to bring everyone in. So, you I want the broad perspective to be incorporated into, you know, what we’re doing, into our projects, into our successes. It’s not just about what I think. It’s not just about what, you know, what I might think is important. As I said, the broad perspective is, you know, a key part of it. And if someone is a little bit shy,

They don’t necessarily contribute. I work to bring them in and to ask them questions if they’re not contributing on their own, because again, they could be shy, but they have something valuable to say. So I think some of those things are what I bring to the table in terms of being a woman leader as opposed to someone else. And I think my example about working in the environment with the Navy and the fact that here I was in my 20s, my mid 20s, working with 200 captains and admirals in their 50s and 60s, it’s proof that you could fit in. Whoever you are and however you lead and manage, you can find your place in the situation and in the environment.

Toni Collis:

Well, final question before we move on to the quick fire round that I really want to ask you is would you do anything differently if you could do your entire career over? The answer might be no, but if it’s yes, what would you do differently?

Sandy Motley:

No, there’s a lot of things that I would do differently. And my first would be that I would make strategic thinking a bigger part of my day, my week, from the beginning. I would start that really forcing myself to think strategically much sooner than I did in my career. I’d move around sooner. I was in that job working with the US Navy for 10 years before I started, you know, exploring other areas of the business. And every time I moved, and you you don’t move every year, but you know, every four or five years, you know, you can move because you could, you know, fully understand the job and then you could take on a new one. And I, the learning that I had in the first year of every new assignment was, you know, the biggest growth spurt I had from a career perspective. So I would want to do that a bit more than I did. And spend more time building connections. Don’t try to do things by myself like maybe I did more in the beginning. And reaching out to people, no matter their field of experience. mean, today, one of my really close colleagues is in HR, is in human resources. And when I have a design issue or another kind of problem, I ask her, because I get really interesting answers from her, you know, that’s quite helpful. those are some of the things, there’s a long list, but those are some of the things that I would want to do differently.

Toni Collis:

I’m just going to call out one thing in particular and it’s partly because it’s one of my passion points is you you said about moving and the growth spurt you get as a leader or as anybody I think when you move jobs. I’m a huge believer in those transitions. It doesn’t have to be a move. It can be a change of focus. It can be a new project. But transitions I think are where we grow so fast if we lean into it. It can make or break your career but it should be within your control to make your career.

And so I want everybody listening to really realise a transition is just an amazing opportunity for you. You’ve got to do them at pace that makes sense. Like it’s a marathon, not a sprint. But those transitions are golden opportunities for us. And in my mind, it’s what keeps me alive because I get bored so quickly. A transition is great. Yeah.

Sandy Motley:

I mean, it’s not only fun, right? Because I think new learnings are exciting and are fun and really are revitalizing. But also, the education and the learning is really fantastic for your career.

Toni Collis:

Well, I could talk about this all day, but let’s move on to the quickfire round. Are you ready for this?

what is the worst piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Sandy Motley:

So I was told in my early career as a leader, as a manager, how to lead in a certain environment. It was terrible. I tried it and I wasn’t successful, so it was really some bad advice.

Toni Collis:

What is the best piece of advice you’ve ever been given?

Sandy Motley:

So the best piece is I need to think about myself in the equation. So often times we’re trying to solve a business problem, we’re trying to make sure that everybody on the team is happy, that our family is happy, and sometimes we forget the me in the equation and you need to make sure that you’re satisfying some of your own needs and goals as well.

Toni Collis:

There is a delicate balance between thinking about the team first, because they’re the ones that you’re leveraging, but making sure you’re getting your knees out of it, but also realizing how you are behaving impacts the team. So you’ve got to think about you quite a bit, but in a not a way that’s about selfishness. And I think that’s a really, really hard balance to get right in most people. I think we really struggle with that as a species. What is the?

Sandy Motley:

Yeah, the way you describe that is great because it’s not about selfishness. It’s about, you know, contributions and other demands.

Toni Collis:

Yeah. And it’s so hard. It’s really hard to get right. And I mean, I would say it’s a constant conversation with clients in coaching conversations is finding that balance because I don’t think it’s normal. But you know what, when you do it daily, is, I truly believe the thing that is a game changer in an organization, but hard to do. So what is the last book you read or listened to and would you recommend it?

Sandy Motley :

So I’m typically a science fiction reader, but my son told me to read The Voice in the Boat. And we both saw the movie, but the book is much more detailed. You really get to live with the characters, and it’s all about a team. And it’s about how a team helps each other in the boat and out of the boat. So whether you want to help your team. in the project at work or outside of the project. It’s a great book. It’s really a wonderful reading.

Toni Collis:

I’m also a big sci-fi fan, so normally I’m like tell me more but actually I’m not heard of this book so I’m going to go and link that one up. I love this job because I get book recommendations all the time and as somebody who listens and reads books like every day like it’s a great it’s a great way to get great recommendations. How can people find out more about you Sandy, more about what you do at Nokia, where can we find you online?

Sandy Motley:

So I’m on LinkedIn, certainly, and some of my experiences at work are shared there. So some of my adventures with customers, like recently I was in Africa. We were connecting the unconnected with our products. So I had some great experiences in South Africa there. So the stories about customers and activities at work in LinkedIn.

Toni Collis

Any final thoughts you’d like to share with us, us with today.

Sandy Motley 

So first I want to thank you, Toni, for the opportunity and for the chance for me to step back, think about where I’ve been, why, you know, all very healthy, great learnings, and it also triggered me to think more about maybe some next steps, so thank you to you. And secondly, I just want to emphasize a lot of what we’ve shared and what we’ve talked about, you know, except for maybe reading a book, most things are a team sport.

And getting everything out of the team as possible is, you know, really the goal or a great goal. And whether your team is your work team, your family team, the stronger it is, the more powerful and the stronger the outcome and the results. So I think it’s something for all of us to work on and to strive.

Toni Collis:

Thank you so much. This conversation has touched so many of the key things I believe make an exceptional leader. The things I believe the foundation and then it’s like having the conversations that allow you to work on this every single day. everything we’ve talked about here is the foundation of success in your leadership. So if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking, I love the idea of being more strategic, but how? Or I know it’s all about leveling up your team, but what does that mean? Well, let’s break this down just very briefly as we wrap this up. It is about encouraging your team to answer questions, but being there ready to help them when they need it. It’s about getting them comfortable with ambiguity, but removing ambiguity at the same time. Being ready to support them in a timely fashion, but also not in your emails all day. And more than anything, the thing that really struck me with Sandy is she has got down the thing I say is mandatory in my coaching discipline, which is have for strategic thinking. That is the thing that is going to do more good than anything else. Yes, be a people first leader. Yes, empower your team. Yes, help them work without you. That is the best form of leadership. And yes, make this about how you are interacting with them. Be reflecting on that, but don’t be selfish. But to do all that well, you need time to be strategic and you need to get out of the weaves. So let me leave you with that.

Spend some time this week getting out of the weeds. Spend some time being strategic. Give yourself permission and allow yourself to be proactive rather than reactive. And I’ll see you here again next week.